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[0:00] Good evening. It's a great privilege for me to be with you tonight and talk about this subject.! I hope that you don't see any French. You might see a few slides that have some French because it slipped through.

[0:15] ! I translated the French PowerPoint into English and I hope I translated it all. If you see a strange word here or there, it's that I was hurrying too much and didn't see it.

[0:26] Well, a few words of introduction. You're going to see what I say a lot tonight just to help you keep track with me. The time tonight will be in two phases. We'll have a first time and then we'll have a little question and answer period and then a second time.

[0:44] I want to say this. Maybe you've come tonight and this question is more than an intellectual question for you. Undoubtedly, many of you have suffered terrible things, difficult things.

[1:01] Maybe it's been injustice. It's been committed against you and your reputation. Maybe it's health issues. Maybe you've suffered terribly in your health.

[1:12] My wife had a 10-year chronic illness when we married, but nothing like things that I hear of and run into as a pastor.

[1:24] Maybe it's you've lost your loved ones in a tragic way. And if that is the case, I just want to say that I'm not coming here as a man just to talk about a puzzle and try to solve it.

[1:42] I'm coming here also as one who sympathizes with you. I don't think I've known very much suffering at all in my life, but we all come up close from time to time.

[1:57] My father was my hero. He was, he lettered in three sports in university. He was a great athlete, a very strong man and a coach and a physical ed teacher.

[2:10] But my father died of ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. If you know anything about that disease, it's a terrible, terrible disease. It's a neurological disease that causes the muscles to basically waste away.

[2:21] And I remember when I was home one time, my dad was getting near the end and he lifted his pant leg and he showed me his calf and it had shriveled away.

[2:34] And it was trembling constantly. All his muscles were trembling constantly because the wiring just wasn't working anymore. And so, and the end got worse, worse than that.

[2:46] My mother died of a neurological disease called Lewy Body's Dementia. They say that Lewy Body's Dementia is sort of a combination of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

[2:59] I say no, it's worse. The bad thing about this disease is that the people who have it have hallucinations, nightmarish hallucinations.

[3:10] And the last time I was with my mom a few weeks before she died, I remember just days just holding her and trying to console her. And she was just completely, oh, she was just in such anguish over the hallucinations that were coming into her mind.

[3:30] And unable now to say what they were and to talk to me about them, but just trembling with fear. So, certainly we all have come up against such terrible things, unfortunately, in one way or another with family members and our own lives.

[3:51] And I hope and pray that tonight not only can we address the problem that evil may give us on a logical level, could it go together with God's existence, but also on a level of experience.

[4:10] And that's what I want to come to now. The problem of evil really includes two different problems. And I've just suggested it. First of all, it's an intellectual problem.

[4:24] And then it's what I call an existential problem. That means a problem in terms of our experience, what touches us. The intellectual problem, we could call it a puzzle to solve.

[4:37] And the existential problem, it's a personal crisis that you must confront and handle, as was the case with me going through my parents' death.

[4:49] So, let's talk about the intellectual problem that is posed by the presence of so much evil and suffering in the world. And that problem is how can a God who's perfectly good and all-powerful create and maintain a world in which there is so much evil and suffering?

[5:12] That does create a logical problem, doesn't it? Given such terrible realities in our world, which we see all around us, can an all-powerful and all-good God really exist?

[5:25] First, we Christians like to, and we're even commanded, face reality as it really is.

[5:35] The reason we have to do that is because God commands us not to lie. So, we can't hide our heads in the sand and pretend because that's not truthful, and we're commanded to be truthful.

[5:46] And when we're truthful, we see that there's a massive amount of suffering in our world in two forms. Philosophers say that there are two sorts of evil.

[5:57] There's natural evil, and there's moral evil. Natural evil is like earthquakes and sicknesses. It's things that go terribly wrong in the physical world.

[6:10] And moral evil is things like being lied against, or having something stolen, or being slandered, or being killed, or having someone be unfaithful to you.

[6:26] So, these two sort of evils, if we look in the newspaper, or if we just look in our neighborhood, we see that these two sorts of evil exist in our world on a pretty massive level.

[6:38] Let me give you some examples. First, about natural evil. Let's talk about that sort of evil as a massive and serious problem in our world. I'm just picking out a few examples, okay?

[6:49] We could find so many others. But in December 1999, there were torrential rains in Venezuela that swept away 30,000 people who died because of these rains.

[7:02] In October 2005, an earthquake in Pakistan killed 74,000 people. In December 2004, the tsunami in Asia killed 230,000.

[7:18] In Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Maldive Islands, it went all the way to Kenya. And none of us can forget that. But that wasn't as bad as what happened six years later in January 2010 in Haiti, where up to 400,000 died in the earthquake, and a million were left homeless.

[7:40] It's just, it's staggering. In July 1931, if we go back a little bit farther in China, there were floods that killed more than three and a half million people.

[7:51] And in 1917 to 1920, there was a flu epidemic that killed at least 50 million people in the world. The massive suffering that all of this represents, even for the survivors, is beyond our imagination.

[8:12] What about moral evil? Well, it exists in a massive way also in our world. We think about the terrorist attacks in France in the last several years.

[8:23] We've been just rocked, just shaken by terrible Islamic terrorist attacks that have killed many. But when we talk about moral evil, we always have to talk about the Nazi Holocaust.

[8:37] Six million Jews were massacred, as well as other peoples. Some people don't know, but the Nazis also went after the gypsies in Europe, handicapped people, and other groups of people.

[8:53] Wars. In the last 4,000 years, there have only been 300 years without a major war. And this is the moral evil of men hating and killing each other, country against country, in the most atrocious ways.

[9:10] If you think about the American Civil War, the sort of killing on such a massive scale. The famine imposed by Stalin in Ukraine in 1932 to 1938 killed between 7 to 10 million of his own people.

[9:30] The executions performed under Mao Tse Tung, more than 22,000 killed every month during the 1950s. We think of the Twin Towers and the 3,000 or so killed there.

[9:43] But every month it was 22,000 in China under Mao Tse Tung. These are leaders who are creating the most evil, the most terrible sufferings that you can possibly imagine.

[9:58] The Rwanda genocide. Almost 1 million people were executed. And if you've ever seen anything about it, between the Tutsis and the Hutus, the Hutus one day turned against a people that really was their same ethnic group.

[10:17] It wasn't different ethnic groups. It was different social classes. And neighbors who'd lived all their lives beside neighbors were just massacring their own neighbors.

[10:30] Who they had gotten along fine with up until then. Such immense suffering in that country. The human trafficking.

[10:41] Up to 4 million men, women, children are victims right now of slavery. Yes, it exists today. Much of it for prostitution.

[10:54] Young women, young ladies and girls that are taken and tricked into the traffic of prostitution.

[11:05] And have no way of getting out of that. Atrocities committed by individuals. A man named Andrea Shicalio admitted in April 1992 to having committed 53 murders.

[11:20] And we could go on and on. And so the evil and the suffering that men, like us in this room, cause toward other men is just massive and terrible.

[11:32] The Bible recognizes this. Faces it in such an amazing fashion.

[11:44] In one Bible book called Ecclesiastes, the writer says this as he surveys the sort of things that I've just said to you. He says again, I saw all the oppressions that are done under the sun.

[11:55] And behold the tears of the oppressed. And they had no one to comfort them. On the side of their oppressors there was power and there was no one to comfort them.

[12:06] And I thought the dead who were already dead more fortunate than the living who are still alive. But better than both is he who has not yet been and has not seen the evil deeds that are done under the sun.

[12:21] And that is what the Bible would have us to think about the evil and suffering of the world. No hiding ourselves from it but facing it front on.

[12:35] Now the question that we want to ask in this first part is, Is the existence of evil in the world a proof that belief in God is illogical?

[12:52] Given this massive evil and suffering that is allowed in this world, Is it just not logical?

[13:03] It's not coherent to believe that an all good and all powerful God exists. Well, from Epicurus to David Hume, the English philosopher, So centuries upon centuries, All the way down to the atheistic philosophers of this century, It's been held that, no, you can't believe in God.

[13:23] It's not logical. It cannot be. Because of the evil and suffering in the world. And here is the reasoning of atheistic philosophers.

[13:35] They say, number one, evil and suffering exists in the world. Number two, if God were all powerful, He could prevent this evil and suffering from existing.

[13:47] Three, if God were perfectly good, He would certainly want to prevent this evil and suffering from existing. Therefore, if an all powerful and perfectly good God existed, There would be no evil or suffering in the world.

[14:02] Five, hence an all powerful and perfectly good God cannot exist, Since there is all this evil, And does not exist. That's the argument.

[14:13] That's the puzzle. And it's an important puzzle. Very, very important. Because if we're wrong on this, You can imagine that we're wrong on everything.

[14:28] So atheists claim that the existence of evil in our world Is incompatible with the existence of an all powerful and all good God. But there's a problem. In order to claim this, They must affirm that evil exists.

[14:45] So their argument, Remember the first point, A moment ago, Was that there's massive evil and suffering in the world, But if a good God existed, Etc.

[14:57] So the atheists have to start by admitting, And saying, And affirming that evil exists. But if God does not exist, Evil cannot, And does not, Exist.

[15:13] And this is what I want to show you, For just a moment. Why, If God does not exist, Is it true that evil cannot, And does not exist.

[15:25] And all the things that you call evil, Are not evil, If God does not exist. First we have to ask the question, What is evil?

[15:38] Well, Evil is simply that which ought not to be. Okay, When something's evil, It's something that ought not to have been done.

[15:49] Okay, You got that? Does everybody agree with me on that? Okay. That's good, Because if we got a problem here, We're in deep, Deep trouble.

[15:59] So, But, Let me just go back a moment. If God does not exist, There are no oughts. There are no things that ought to be, And ought not to be, Because there's no one above us, That set up the world to be in a certain way, From which it could turn, And deviate.

[16:24] Now, Let's listen to a couple of thinkers, That tell us about this. C.S. Lewis, Was an atheist professor of literature, Who taught at both Oxford and Cambridge, He later became a Christian, But he tells about, The time when he was not a Christian, He says, My argument against God, And it may be yours tonight, My argument against God, Was that the universe seemed so cruel, And unjust, But how had I got this idea, Of just and unjust?

[16:56] A man does not call a line crooked, Unless he has some idea, Of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with, When I called it unjust?

[17:07] Just. There must be some standard of justice, That I know in my heart, And where does that come from? Peter Kreft and Ronald Tasseli, Wrote a book, Philosophers, And they say, The very fact of our outrage at evil, And I know that, You should have outrage at evil, Our outrage at evil, The very fact of our outrage at evil, Is a clue that we are in touch, With a standard of goodness, By which we judge this world, As defective, As failing drastically short of the mark, Now let me ask you, You who are outraged at evil, Aren't you judging, These terrible things, That you've seen or experienced, Aren't you judging them, As missing some sort of mark, Some sort of standard, Which should be?

[18:00] Now, If God doesn't exist, All we really have, Is our own personal preferences, Let me give you an example, In our culture, Western culture, We think people, Should be nice to their neighbors, But in some cultures, At least in the past, In some places, You eat your neighbors, Now, If God doesn't exist, That's a cultural difference, We prefer to be nice, To our neighbors, Some people prefer, To eat their neighbors, If God does not exist, How can we say, That the others are wrong, Because there's nothing above, All of us, To decide between us, It's only me against you, It's only our cultures, We don't like that, Against your cultures, We do like that, You see, This is our,

[19:01] This is our moral problem, All our judgments of things, If God does not exist, Are simply, Our own individual, Or cultural consensus, Now we may say, Well more people, Don't like cannibalism, Than do like cannibalism, Well who said, It's the majority that rules, The majority?

[19:23] The majority says, The majority rules? You see, We, It's illogical, Who says that, The majority rules? Well the majority, We have a, We have a logical problem, We can't, We can't found, And establish, A morality, On the basis of, What we think, Of what we feel, And we can see, That even in our country today, People are changing, What they feel, About lots of ethical issues, Aren't they?

[19:50] Things that could never be done, 50 years ago, Are now, Very correct, And being pushed, By society, So, If there's no God above us, You have nothing to say, About any of these changes, They're just, All we have is our, The way we feel, And the way, Our own personal preferences, Let me give you an illustration, So that you can grab onto this, Now please listen to this very closely, And I'm not trying to, I'm really not trying to say anything, That would harm, Or make you upset, I just, We all need to, To think logically, And in a coherent way, If not, We can't get out of, All of these problems, Now, If you build a house, In America, You have to have a plan, An architectural plan, That's, Evidently the law, At least in most places, And so,

[20:50] Before you build a house, The architect draws up the plan with you, You decide, How many floors you want to have, And, And how big the lounge, And the family room is, And the bedrooms, And where you're going to put the windows, And all these sorts of things, Now in the south of France, The construction business is notorious, For, For not doing what they promised, In the plan, And so, When we moved down to the south of France, A few years ago, People said, Don't build, Don't build, They said, Buy a house, It's already, You know what it is, Because people have all sorts of problems, But, Let's suppose that, I made that mistake, And we decide to build, So I'm going down to the side, Every two days, To check things out, Okay, And I get there, And I notice that, They put up the walls, And, Today they had, Knocked a hole in one wall, For one of the windows, But I look at it,

[21:51] And, I say, Hold on, Hold on, Hold on, That window, Ought not, Ought not, Ought not to be there, Because in the plan, That window was supposed to be, Two yards, From the end of the wall, And you put it way over, Now, You see, I can say, That that ought not to be there, Why?

[22:17] Because there was a plan, That it was supposed to, Correspond to, There was, A previous, Standard, To compare it with, There was a right, Against which it could be wrong, But let's say, That you go on vacation, To a country, Where there's been a hurricane, And it's, Destroyed a neighborhood, And numerous houses, And you know, When there are these hurricanes, Sometimes it just, Picks up whole houses, And parts of houses, It just takes off, Roofs, And deposits them, Somewhere, Way down, Miles away, And let's say, That you go to the place, Where the hurricane, Had done a lot of disaster, And someone wants to show you, How powerful this hurricane was, So they take you up on this hill, And they say, I want to show you, The hurricane just dumped, The pieces from, That neighborhood, A few miles away, Just dumped a bunch of it, Right here on top of this hill, So you go up on this hill,

[23:19] And man, On top of this hill, You see, You see doors, And bricks, And parts of a roof, And windows, Now, Could you go to that, I'll just strewn all around, In chaos, Could you go up to this pile, And you say, Ah, That window ought not to be right there, What's wrong with that?

[23:43] You see, There can't be any ought, If it was just an impersonal, Chaos, That created this mess, If there was no, Personal plan, That said, The window's got to be here, And not here, If it's just, Chaos that did it, There's no ought, There's just things that are there, Because there's no standard, No previous, Plan and design, Of what should have been, And that's the same thing, With our world, If there's no God, We're simply here, By, By an accident, By an accident of chaos, Of chance, And things just happen, And when they happen, They're not happening, Against any ought, They're just there, And so when you're outraged, And you say that, That man shouldn't have treated me like this, What you're really saying,

[24:44] Is in my heart of hearts, I know, That there is in fact, A plan, A design, A way that things should have been, And that this life, Is not the result, Of impersonal chance, That's what you're really saying, In your heart, That you know is true, The great thinkers, Of human history, Admit this point, Even the atheists, So I'm going to call in, A couple of atheistic philosophers, And they admit, This is true, Even though it actually, Destroys their philosophies, Let's take the case, Of natural evil, The earthquakes, And hurricanes, And sicknesses, And those things, In an interview, With the daily telegraph, One of the big newspapers, In the United Kingdom, Great Britain, In 1992, Richard Dawkins, One of the most famous, Atheistic professors, In the world today, He's a professor at Oxford, He's written books, To try to prove, That God doesn't exist, He responded to a question, In this way, He said,

[25:44] I quote, Suppose, That some child, Is dying of cancer, We say, Why is this child dying, What has it done, To deserve it, Dawkins says, The answer is, There's no reason why, There's no reason, Other than a series, Of historical accidents, Which led to this child, Dying of cancer, No reason to ask, Why?

[26:07] When reminded, That this is precisely, The question that people, Will do ask, And if you've had, This sort of thing happen, That was precisely, The question you asked, When you lost your loved one, Why?

[26:19] This person, Why now? When reminded, That this is precisely, The question that people, Do ask, Dawkins, Its only response was, That's their problem, Because in an atheist universe, There is no why, There's no why, That things are strewn, In that way, No one, Did this according, To a reason, A why, And so things just are, And writing about this, Sometime later, Sometime later, Richard Dawkins, Said this, Such a universe, Where God doesn't exist, Would be neither good, Nor bad in intention, It would manifest, No intentions, Of any kind, In a universe, Of blind physical forces, And genetic replication, Some people are going, To get hurt, Others are going, To get lucky, And you won't find, Any rhyme or reason in it, Or any justice, The universe, That we observe, Has precisely, The properties, That we should expect,

[27:19] If there is, At bottom, No design, No purpose, No good, And no evil, So now, Dawkins is actually admitting, There is no such thing, As an evil event, There is no good, There is no evil, There is nothing, But blind, Pitiless, Indifference, Now I think, Dawkins is terribly wrong, About our universe, Being one that corresponds, To that, Because I could, Give you some, Evidence, That when people, Disobey, God's moral laws, When they are dishonest, And unfaithful, And, Not moderate, In their behavior, And unkind, You will see, Very different results, In their lives, From people, Who are kind, And good, And, And, And tell the truth, Now I am not talking, About natural evils, Happening to them, But I am telling, I am talking about, The moral things, That go on, In their lives, And, The joy, And the peace,

[28:20] That they may have, From living such a life, But I don't want to get, Into that right now, I just want to show you, That Dawkins, Has, Is pushing, To the point, Where he has to admit, There is no such thing, As, When a child dying of cancer, It is not evil, It just is, So for Dawkins, As an atheist, No God means, No natural evil, For the atheist, Earthquakes, Children dying of cancer, Or other such events, In the physical world, Are not evils, Because there is no way, That things should be, Which these things, These events, Don't live up to, Okay, Does that make sense?

[29:00] All right, Now, Let's take the case, Of moral evil, Of injustice, Of people, Against each other, Let's suppose, That we have, A universe, Where God does not exist, Can there be, Moral evil?

[29:15] And we're going to see, That no, There's no moral evil, No one's ever been, Unjust to you, Jean-Paul Sacre, Was a famous, French philosopher, In the 20th century, An author, Very popular, And he wrote this, He was famous, For a type of philosophy, That's called, Existentialism, Okay, And he says, The existentialist, Thinks it very distressing, That God does not exist, Because all possibility, Of finding moral values, Disappears along with him, No God, No moral values, No right and wrong, Indeed, Everything is permissible, If God does not exist, If I have excluded, If I have excluded God, The Father, There must be somebody, To invent values, If God does not exist, Man is forlorn, For he cannot find anything, To depend upon, Either within, Or without himself, For some reason, I've lost the last part, Of my thing, I'm deeply convinced, That morals are both, Impossible, And completely necessary,

[30:18] So, Jean-Paul Sartre is saying, I can't live, Without there being, Rights and wrongs, If someone breaks, Into my house, And steals my belongings, I, I, I can't actually live, According to my, Atheistic philosophy, Because I should say, That wasn't wrong, There's nothing wrong, With that, There's nobody, I don't like it, But it's not, An absolute wrong, It's just something, I personally don't prefer, Okay, Because there's nobody, Above me to say, That it's an absolute wrong, The only person, That's there is me, And this guy, Likes taking my stuff, And I didn't like it, And so, So be it, He says, Moral values, Are absolutely necessary, I can't live, Without them, Neither can you, But in my, Atheistic universe, If God doesn't exist, They're impossible, You can't have them, And so, In the end, The presence, The existence of evil,

[31:18] Is actually a great proof, That God exists, Because if God does not exist, Evil cannot exist, Real, Absolute evil, It is clear, That the existence of evil, Points in reality, To the fact that God exists, And that our innate sense, Of right and wrong, Shows that we know this, Deep inside, We know that there's something, Bigger and greater, And more absolute, Than just my personal preferences, That I don't like, Children to be tortured, I don't think, It's just a matter, Of personal preference, I get, Absolutely outraged, And I say, Even if the whole culture, Changed, So that nobody minded, Children being tortured, It's still wrong, Because there's something, Above the culture, Someone above the culture, Who is himself, The standard of right and wrong, So the following line, Of argument, Does not violate, Any laws of logic,

[32:20] Now I'm going back to, I'm changing, The line of argument, I first showed you, A while ago, From the atheistic philosophers, Here's my argument, God is perfectly good, He is there, He's looking upon us tonight, And he is perfect goodness, And in him, There is no darkness, No, No injustice, That's what he is, Forever and forever, God is all powerful, He can do, Anything that he wants, Three, Evil exists, Four, The perfectly good, And all powerful God, Has a morally sufficient reason, For the evil, Which he does not like, And does not cause, But has for a time, Allowed to exist, Now there's nothing, Logically, Incoherent about that, But I want to, Explain it to you, The Bible says, That the secret things,

[33:20] Belong to the Lord our God, But the things revealed, Belong to us, And to our children forever, That we may do all the words, Of this law, The law of God, This means that, There are some things, That God reveals to man, And he teaches us, And shows us, And that there are other things, That are too high, Too infinitely above, Our finite comprehension, And so God does not, Explain these to us, We cannot understand them, He is infinite, Upon infinite, He says in, Isaiah 55, God says, My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are my way, Your ways my ways, Declares the Lord, For as the heavens, Are higher than the earth, So are my ways, Higher than your ways, And my thoughts, Higher than your thoughts, Now let me give you, A little illustration of this, Imagine a three year old, Four year old child, Who has to have, A very serious operation, And the doctor,

[34:20] Is going to have to, Take the scalpel, And cut this poor little child, Open, And the parents, Have to explain to the child, That he's got to have, An operation, And that, The doctor, Is going to do this, And it's going to hurt, For a long time afterwards, Imagine that the child says, But you are able, To stop the doctor, From doing this, And you love me, And if you love me, And you don't want me to suffer, And you're able, To keep me from suffering, Then why, Are you going to let me suffer?

[34:59] And the problem is, That the disease, That the child has, And the whole, Problem of this complex situation, And the operation, Is something that a three year old, Can't understand, And to try to get, Go into that, And explain it to a three year old, Would never work, And so, As a parent, What do you do?

[35:21] You say, Oh my dear child, And you say it with tears, You know that we love you, You know that we would only, Do the best for you, But we cannot explain to you, All the details of the why, But we can say, You know us, And you know that we love you, Trust us, Trust us, And there's something like that, That happens, That has to happen, With the almighty God, Who's made you for himself, And who loves you, And your understanding, Of the evil of this world, And God says to us, As high as the heavens are, Above the earth, So, God's thoughts, And his ways, And the reasons, He has, And perfect goodness, And wisdom, For, Creating a man, That could turn away from him, That could choose, That's fully human, That's fully man, And that could say,

[36:22] Yes to God, And no to God, And in saying no, That could, Turn into darkness, And evil, God had his own, Sufficient reasons, For permitting, Such things, Now, That's where we're going to stop, With the first part of our, Conference tonight, And so, Before we go on, I want to just, Open it up, For a few moments, Of question and answer, And we haven't finished, We've only dealt with, The logical problem, Could it possibly, Possibly be logical, That an all good, All powerful God exists, And allows evil, And what we've seen is, That if evil exists, In fact, God must exist, And we must not, Understand why, Because his thoughts, And ways, And reasons, Must be just way higher, Than we are, But there could be no evil, True evil, Absolute evil, Unless there's, An absolute good God,

[37:23] All right, So okay, I'm going to go on, And hopefully now, We can, We can deal with, The existential problem, The existential problem, Posed by the existence, Of evil and suffering, In his love for us, God has brought us, A solution to evil, And suffering, You must know this tonight, If you've come here, And you feel like, Evil has just, Overcome you, And God's given us, A solution, Both on an objective level, And a subjective level, That means, He's done something, To take away evil itself, And he's also done something, To enable you to know, How evil can be taken away, From your life, And to grab onto that solution, Okay, On the objective level, God's done something, That will one day, Put an end to all evil, And suffering, I said it, God has already done something,

[38:24] That will one day, Put an end to all evil, And suffering, And there will be, No more suffering, There will be a world, In which there is no evil, As he wanted it to be, On the subjective level, God has revealed to us, He's made known to men, Through the Christian gospel, And through the Bible, What we need to know, So that we can receive, And benefit from a solution, Which will one day, End evil and suffering, So that, Even though, You may have some suffering, Let, Yet, Until we get to that world, Without evil, God can already, Put you, In a new situation, In which, You have, You become an overcomer, An overcomer, Of evil and suffering, Someone that can make it through, To a world, Without evil and suffering, Now there are four, Crucial things, God has revealed,

[39:24] That you must know, In order to be delivered, From evil and suffering, In this world, Whether you're, Just a person, That's eaten up, With bitterness, Or sorrow, Or, Or any, Kind of suffering, He's revealed, He's revealed these things, To the world, Through the coming, And the life, And the crucifixion, And the resurrection, Of his son, Jesus Christ, And this is the amazing thing, Just in Jesus, And his coming, And the way he lived, And the way he died, And the way he rose again, The whole problem of evil, Is laid out, The answer to it, And, And the whole problem is solved, It's the most amazing thing, And this is what I want to show you, Four truths, Okay, This is the first one, God is not the cause of evil, But the target of evil, And God made this clear, By becoming a man, And stepping into the world, What happened to God,

[40:27] Become man in Jesus Christ, When God walks around, In a form, That we can understand, And grab a hold of, I want you to notice, What happens, When God, Comes into the world, The Bible says, About Jesus, About God become man, That on earth, He was despised, And rejected by men, A man of sorrows, And acquainted with grief, And as one from whom, Men hide their faces, In other words, When Jesus came into this world, He become, More than any man, We would say in French, Par excellence, A man, That evil just, Fell upon with all its force, A man of sorrows, And acquainted with grief, And he did this on purpose, He did not, Make sorrow come on him, It's just coming into the world, And being who he was, Being the perfect God, Of the universe, In human form,

[41:28] Evil came to him, Like a magnet to metal, Look at this, He was rejected, By his family members, And his hometown, Who wanted to kill him, He was hounded, By corrupt religious authorities, Who wanted to kill him, He was betrayed, By one of his intimate friends, He was denied, By people for whom, He had done such good, He went about doing good, And healing people, And blessing them, And those very people, Turned upon him, In the most, Unreasonable, And an, Inexplainable way, Possible, Saying, Crying out, Crucify him, Crucify him, He was arrested, And condemned, By an unfair court trial, He was beaten, By soldiers, He was whipped, Then crucified, Amidst the mockery, Of those, Who watched on, Now, Why did God, Become man,

[42:30] One of the reasons, Was God, Wanted to make it clear, Once and for all, To you and me, That, He is not the cause of evil, He is the target of evil, And this became clear, When God stepped into the world, Did nothing but good, And no evil, And what happened to him, Was he became more than anyone else, The target of evil, And so, God has been kind to us, That this question, Now is just made perfectly clear, Put out in the daylight, So that you never, Have to wonder, Is God, A source of evil, He came, So we could see him, And see, He was only a source of good, But he was the target of evil, Oh, So evil is not something from God, But something, Against God, And that's the first thing, We must get clear, In our minds, And we can know it for sure,

[43:32] Because it happened in history, The answer to that big question, Two, It is we human beings, Who are the cause, Of the evil and suffering, Which exists in this world, Ask my wife, If I haven't been a cause, Of suffering to her, Ask your wife, Or your husband, Or your children, Or your parents, Now, What we're going to do, Is we're going to read, A passage of scripture here, And to answer the third, Or fourth question, And I'm not going to make, A whole lot of comments, But we're going to, Cull one thing out of it, Okay, Now let's read together, This passage, Which is in the gospel of Luke, Chapter 13, Verses one to five, What are we talking about, Did you lose me, We're talking about the fact, That the second truth, Is that it's we human beings, That are the cause of evil, One time, An English newspaper, Had a contest,

[44:35] And the contest was, Anyone could write an essay, And send it into the paper, Answering the question, What is the cause, Of the evil of this world, And a very famous, Christian writer, Named G.K. Chesterton, Wrote in, He wanted to win the prize, Because there was a lot of money to win, And he wrote in, And he, And answered the question, What is the cause of evil, In the world, His essay said, Yours truly, G.K. Chesterton, And that was all, Okay, Here's what the gospel of Luke says, There was some president, At that very time, Who told him, Jesus, About the Galileans, The Galileans, Or the people, In the north of Israel, Where Jesus was, About the Galileans, Whose blood, Pilate, The Roman governor, Had mingled with their sacrifices, That means that, There had been some, Jewish people, Galileans, Who had been at the temple, In Jerusalem,

[45:35] In the south, They had gone down, And they had offered, Animal sacrifices, As the Jews did, And, Pilate, The Roman governor, Had some reason, To be against them, And he sent soldiers, Right into the temple, And massacred those people, Right in the middle, Of their worship service, So that their blood, Got all mixed up, With the blood of the animals, They were sacrificing, A terrible carnage, So these people, Come and tell Jesus about, Can you imagine, They come to him, And tell, Do you know what happened, This is what happened, To these Galileans, And, What kind of evil is that, Natural or moral?

[46:11] Moral evil, Okay, So Jesus now, Is going to bring up, A natural evil, So we'll have both of them, A moral evil, And a natural evil, Okay, But he says first, He answered them, Do you think, That these Galileans, The ones that were killed, So terribly, Were worse sinners, Than all the other Galileans, Because they suffered, In this way, No, I tell you, But unless you repent, You will all, Likewise perish, Now Jesus brings up, Himself, A second case, But natural evil, Or those 18, On whom the tower, Of, I don't know how you say, This in English, I know how we say it, In French, We say, Siloam, But you would probably say what?

[46:52] Siloam, Okay, This tat, On whom the tower, Siloam, Fell and killed them, Natural evil, The tower just fell, Do you think, That they were worse offenders, Than all the others, Who lived in Jerusalem, Now, The Lord is, Kind of sly, Because the first one, Was about the Galileans, And the guys down in Jerusalem, Thought that the Galileans, Weren't so faithful, As Jews, So he brings up a case, About people down in, Jerusalem, Where they were most devoted, To the Jewish religion, And he says, Do you think they were worse offenders, Than all the others, Who lived in Jerusalem, No I tell you, But unless you repent, You will all, Likewise, Perish, Now, So we notice, That Jesus is dealing, With a moral evil, And a natural evil, What does he say about it?

[47:42] The Jews took it for granted, That if anyone suffered, A really extraordinary evil, Then it was because, They were really a lot worse, Than everybody else, Okay, And Jesus, Just throws that out of court, He brings it up, Do you suppose, It's because they were worse, Than all the other Galileans, Worse than all the other, Inhabitants of Jerusalem, No, So Jesus says, That really bad things, Happened to people, Not because, They were, More bad, Than other people, Now, The Jews took it for granted, That there was this connection, Between, Suffering, And evil, And Jesus doesn't, Throw that out of court, But he does something else, With it, Jesus says, Now listen, Jesus says, That great suffering, Is not a proof, That you've sinned, More than anybody, Everybody else, Great suffering, Is a sample, Of what we all merit,

[48:44] If we don't repent, Notice how Jesus says this, Do you think, These Galileans, Were worse sinners, Than all the other Galileans, Because they suffered in this way, No, I tell you, But, Here's what we do understand, By this evil event, And why God allowed it, That unless you repent, You all, Will perish, What does that mean, Likewise, That means, That these people perished, Okay, They perished, They died in an awful way, As a sample, Of what we all deserve, And what should have happened, To us all, Already, So the question is not, Why did the tower fall on them, The question is, Why did the tower, Not already fall on me, God says, All have sinned, And fall short, Of the glory of God, That all men, Have flouted, God's authority, Turned their backs, Not sought God, Not loved him,

[49:44] With all their heart, Not sought to see, What, How do you want me to live, What did you make me to be, Who am I, And what should I do, But men have, Set the Bible aside, Not cared for what God said, And wanted to construct, A society and a way of life, That can go right on, Without God, And that's what we've all done, And we've been very kind, To one another, There's no problem with that, Perhaps, But, We've been kind enough, To one another, Like the pirates, Who take over a ship, Who put the, Captain in the prison, And, They want to take, Take the cargo, And sell it, And then kill him, And, They're very kind, To one another, These pilots, These pirates, They're so nice, Before you, No, Before you, You go first, And why are they so nice, Because they want to, Carry out their scheme, To steal the cargo,

[50:46] And to kill, The captain of the ship, And in this world, We're very kind, To one another, Because we want to, Carry out, Our purpose, To build a world, That doesn't need, God, And loving God, And seeking God, And being devoted to God, And finding his ways, As being the center, Of everything, And that's, The source of, All the evil, So Jesus, Tells us, That, The reason, That moral evil, And natural evil, Is allowed by God, Right now to happen, Is because, We all deserve it, And God, In his love, Gives little samples, Here and there, In order to say, To all of us, Wake up, Wake up, Repent, Or this is what's coming, To all of us, The third truth,

[51:51] Is, Though we are guilty, Of causing the evil, And suffering in the world, God is not simply, Condemned, And abandoned us, But instead, Has immense compassion, For us, As he looks on us, In our sin and misery, In this world, Now I want to read you, A passage of scripture, That perhaps you know well, It's Jesus' interaction, With a family, That he loved very much, And who had a terrible thing, Happen to them, One of the brothers, Of the family died, Let's read it, And then we're just going, To look at, Think about, When God comes into the world, And he wants to show us, What is his attitude, Toward the human race, As it suffers the evil, As it suffers, Because it's turned away, From God, Does God just say, Well that's your problem, And you're all, You're all going to hell, Or, Is his attitude, Very different, Does he pity us, And long over us,

[52:53] In the midst of our suffering, Now look at this, Because Jesus makes himself man, So that we can actually see it, And once and for all, It comes out into the daylight, What God's attitude is toward you, As someone who suffered misery, Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, The village of Mary, And her sister Martha, So the sisters sent to him, To Jesus, Saying, Lord, He whom you love, Is ill, The sisters knew, That Jesus just loved, Lazarus, But when Jesus heard it, He said, This illness does not lead to death, It is for the glory of God, So the Son of God, May be glorified through it, Now Jesus loved Martha, And her sister, And Lazarus, So, When he heard that Lazarus was ill, He stayed two days longer, In the place where he was, Isn't that amazing?

[53:42] Here is God, Showing us, That sometimes he permits, A natural evil, A suffering, This man's sick, And Jesus lets the sickness, Proceed, He's going to let it proceed, To the place that it kills Lazarus, Before he can get there, So when he, Yeah, He stayed two days longer, Then after this, He said to his disciples, Let us go to Judea again, Now when he came, I'm skipping a little bit, Now Jesus comes to their house, He found that Lazarus, Had already been in the tomb, Four days, Many of the Jews, Had come to Martha and Mary, To console them, Concerning their brother, So when Martha heard, That Jesus was coming, She went, And met him, Martha said to Jesus, Lord, If you had been here, My brother would not have died, Because she knew, Jesus could have healed him, From the sickness, But even now, I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you, Jesus said to her,

[54:44] Your brother will rise again, Martha said to him, I know that he will rise again, In the resurrection, On the last day, Because the Jews knew well, That there would be a, Resurrection, Men would have, Believing men, Who knew God, Would refine their bodies, And live again, But this time forever, And Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection, And the life, Whoever believes in me, Though he die, Jesus wanted not, To be the answer to sickness, He wanted to be the answer, To something much more, Much worse, Much more evil, Cause much more suffering, He wanted to show, He was the answer, To the ultimate, Whoever believes in me, I am the resurrection, And the life, Whoever believes in me, Though he die, Yet he shall live, And everyone who lives, And believes in me, Shall not die, Shall not die,

[55:45] In an ultimate, Final way, Shall not go, Be in hell forever, Do you believe this, Martha? She said to him, Yes Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, The son of God, Who is coming into the world, Because she knew that, The perfectly good God, Was sending, And had always said, I will send the solution, To evil, Well, When she had said this, She went and called her sister Mary, Saying in private, Whispering in her ear, The teacher is here, And is calling for you, Isn't Jesus kind, Martha goes out to meet, And he says everything, She needs to hear, And then he says, Get married, I want to talk to her alone, The teacher is here, And is calling for you, And when she heard it, She rose quickly, And went to him, Now Jesus has not yet, Come into the village, Was still in the place, Where Martha had met him, And I think it was purposeful, He wanted this to happen,

[56:46] Away from all the morning, And everybody that's wailing, And, Now when Mary came to where Jesus was, And saw him, She fell at his feet, Such grief, Saying to him, Lord, If you had been here, My brother would not have died, She didn't know her sister, Said the same thing, But they felt the same way, When Jesus saw her weeping, Now this is what I'm getting at, Here's God, And we're going to learn, What God is like, To your weeping, Because he shows it, In human form, So that you can have no doubt, When Jesus saw her weeping, And the Jews had come with her, Also weeping, He was deeply moved, In his spirit, And greatly troubled, The Greek word, That was translated here, Deeply moved, Actually is a word, That's used for horses, When they snort in anger, Jesus is, He's moved, He's so angry,

[57:46] At evil, And suffering, This was not, What was meant to be, He was deeply moved, In his spirit, And greatly troubled, And he said to him, Where have you laid him?

[58:03] They said to him, Lord, Come and see, Jesus wept, And the Jews said, See how he loved him, Now, But some of them said, Could not he, Who opened the eyes, Of the blind man, Also have kept, This man from dying, That's always our question, Isn't it?

[58:23] But Jesus is going to, Is going to show, That the God, Who sometimes allows, An evil or suffering, Even to the point of death, He can allow it, Because he is the, Ultimate solution, Even for death, Then Jesus deeply moved, Again came to the tomb, It was a cave, And a stone lay, Against it, Jesus said, Take away the stone, Martha the sister, Of the dead man, Said to him, Lord, By this time there will be an odor, For he has been dead four days, Jesus said to her, Did I not tell you, That if you believed, You would see the glory of God, You would see the excellent, Goodness and power of God, To undo every evil, And wipe every tear, So they took the stone away, And Jesus lifted his eyes, And said, Father, I thank you, That you've heard me, I knew that you always hear me, But I say this, On account of the people, Standing around, That they may believe, That you sent me, And when he had said these things,

[59:24] He cried out with a loud voice, Lazarus, Come out, And the man who had died, Came out, His hands and feet, Bound with linen strips, And his face, Wrapped with a cross, And Jesus said to him, Unbind him, And let him go, Some months ago, I was with a lady named Martine, In France, Near in the city where we live, And I had been to visit her, Many, Many times, Over the three previous years, She had had a cancer, And this cancer, Had spread, And no one thought, She would live so long, She looked like a skeleton, I'd often sit with her, In her living room, And talk to her, She wasn't a believer, And I knew that the time, Was getting very close to the end,

[60:25] But no one, Had said anything to her, About that, Not the doctor, Not the family, In fact, They got very upset with me, When I did what I did that day, But, I said, I'd like to talk to Martine, Alone, Could I?

[60:50] Because there were always, A ton of people in that lounge, It was a family, That the neighbors, It was like Grand Central Station, Really, Almost every time I was ever there, There were just people, Around the table, They were a lovely family, And they tended to attract people, But anyway, That day, Everybody, Submitted to my wishes, And I was alone with Martine, And, I said, Martine, You've, You've got to understand, That, This might be, Coming, To the end, And you may be facing death, Very soon, I've got to say this to you, Because you've got to, Be ready, I knew she wasn't a believer, You've got to be ready, God wants you to be ready, To meet him, And he's saying, I'm calling you to come to me, And, I took my Bible, And I read her, This verse,

[61:56] Let's see if this is going to work, No, Anyway, You can find it in the middle, Jesus said to her, This is what I read to Martine, I said to her, Because she was in great sorrow, She was losing everything, You see, When death comes, You lose everything, Whatever you have, You lose it, You lose your friends, You lose your children, You lose your spouse, You lose, You lose your pleasures, And your pastimes, You lose everything, It's the ultimate evil, And I said to her, Martine, Because no one had any solution for her, And I'd sit around hours, With all these people, And no one had one, They didn't know what to say to her, Now that it was coming to the end, They'd given her platitudes, While she was not doing too bad, And given her some hope, Oh, You'll get better, You have such a positive attitude, And, You know, Etc, Etc, But now, It was obvious, That she was going to die, No one had any solution, Well,

[62:57] There was a solution, And I said to her, Jesus says to you, Jesus said, I am the resurrection, And the life, Whoever believes in me, Though he die, He shall live, And, This is, The wonderful thing, That we must know, That whatever suffering you have, Whatever evil it is, There is a message, There is a solution, There is a hope, That is so great, That whatever you lose, Even if you go all the way to death, There is one, That can raise you up, Beyond all of that, To a world, Where there is no sorrow, There are no handicaps, There are no injustices, There is no death, But forever life and joy, And that, Is the ultimate solution,

[64:00] To whatever evil, May confront your life, And we know, That God, Right now, In the midst of your suffering, We know, Without any doubt, That he is a God, That sympathizes, With you, Because he's made it, He came all the way to earth, Became a man, And suffered, And entered right into, Not only his suffering, But the suffering of people, Like Martha and Mary, He stepped right into it, So that we would know for sure, That he loves us, That he weeps over our suffering, Even suffering that we've drawn, On our own selves, And that he says to us, I am the resurrection, And the life, And I can solve, It all, The last truth, And we end with this, Is that in sending his son, To die and rise again, God has provided for you, A definitive solution, For the evil and suffering, This world, Of this world, And offers you this solution,

[65:01] In his great love for you, Now let's see how he offers, Well, Actually, I've gotten ahead of myself, This was what I wanted to tell you, With the story of Martine, So we'll go on, To this next thing, What is the life, And the world, On the other side of resurrection, Like?

[65:17] Why is this resurrection talk, Why is that such an ultimate, Adequate solution, For whatever, Suffering you're, You're, You're having, Or, Or, Someone you love, Has, Well, In the last book of the Bible, We read this, About the world that's coming, Replacing this world, Then I saw a new heaven, And a new earth, For the first heaven, And the first earth, Had passed away, And I heard a loud voice, From the throne, Saying, Behold, The dwelling place of God, Is with man, He will dwell with them, And they will be his people, And God himself, Will be with them, As their God, Now listen to this, And he will wipe away, Every tear, From their eyes, And death shall be no more, Neither shall there be mourning, Nor crying, Nor pain, Any more, For the former things, Have passed away, And he who was seated on the throne, Said, Behold,

[66:17] I am making all things new, And he said, Write this down, For these words, Are trustworthy and true, I love it, Glad for the last phrase, Do you understand, What this means, When God says, That he will wipe, Every tear from our eyes, He is not talking, About liquid on your face, He means that, The causes, Of all your tears, The sufferings, And the sicknesses, And the death, And the injustices, That in that new world, When he brings you, Into that new world, He will sow, The joy, And the peace, And the forever goodness, Of it all, Will take away, All the causes, And all the injustices, And all the imperfections, And everything, That was not quite, As it should have been, And he will, Take it all away, It will be, As if it never was, And that is the plan of God, Because that's what God is like,

[67:19] And that's what God is calling you to, Why did Jesus have to come to earth, And die on a cross, To make all that possible, Because I want to say to you, The only way to get there, Is Jesus Christ, And Jesus Christ, Having been crucified, For you, And your sins, For your evil, Entering into, Not only the evil, Of which you were a victim, But the evil, Of which you were the cause, Well, Isaiah says this, He was pierced, Here's evil, He was pierced, For our transgressions, He was crushed, For our iniquities, Upon him, Was the chastisement, That brought us peace, And with his wounds, We are healed, All we, All we, All we, And this is the verse,

[68:20] I say this, Every morning to God, The first thing, That I say to God, When I wake up, Is all we like sheep, Have gone astray, We have turned everyone, To his own way, But you Lord, Have laid on Jesus, The iniquity of us all, How can you be saved, How can you be saved, From evil, By another person, Jesus, Suffering evil, He was pierced, He was crushed, How can you, One day, Be saved from evil, And suffering, By another person, Experiencing, Suffering, Well, You all understand it, It's called substitution, The battle is raging, And the soldier sees someone aiming at his best buddy, And he lunges, And steps in the way of the fire, And takes the bullet, By his suffering, He saved his buddy, From suffering, He substituted, His life,

[69:22] For the life of his friend, And the Bible says, Very simply, That's what God has done, God has taken on all your evil, Everything that you've done, That should make the tower of Siloam fall on you, He's taken it, On himself, He's been crushed and pierced, That he might take the punishment, So that if you will believe in him, And come and take him, As the resolver of evil and suffering, And the evil that you have done, And deserved, Then he will be to you, The resurrection, And the life, And the entry into a world, With no suffering, Forevermore, May God help you to understand this message, Because Jesus Christ, Is God's answer to evil, Yours and mine, And the whole world's, And he wants to be to you, The resurrection, And the life.

[70:16]  And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment, And the judgment,